Jacob
Junior Member
練習して、がんばりますね!
Posts: 95
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Post by Jacob on Dec 6, 2013 2:42:24 GMT
OMG demon head i love naruto i skip around a lot though!
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Post by 魔 on Dec 6, 2013 14:01:18 GMT
I don't think I've ever skipped episodes, I was tempted a couple of times in One piece with some of their "specials". But I suffered through them.
I'd like to watch my old childhood anime that I saw dubbed in English on tv. Pokemon,Yu gi oh, Dragonball Z. Since I already know the story I'd like to watch them in Japanese with no subtitles. Suppose if I couldn't find them I'd have to cover the subtitles with something.
You miss a lot of subtleties in the anime when you're reading subtitles. When I was watching Yakitate Japan. I watched it first with subtitles on and then again after without. One episode was about baking a croissant and at the end scene there was a cloud shaped like a croissant, I completely missed it when the subtitles were on.
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Post by Jembru on Dec 6, 2013 17:09:06 GMT
I don't think I've ever skipped episodes, I was tempted a couple of times in One piece with some of their "specials". But I suffered through them. I'd like to watch my old childhood anime that I saw dubbed in English on tv. Pokemon,Yu gi oh, Dragonball Z. Since I already know the story I'd like to watch them in Japanese with no subtitles. Suppose if I couldn't find them I'd have to cover the subtitles with something. You miss a lot of subtleties in the anime when you're reading subtitles. When I was watching Yakitate Japan. I watched it first with subtitles on and then again after without. One episode was about baking a croissant and at the end scene there was a cloud shaped like a croissant, I completely missed it when the subtitles were on. Pokemon and yugioh are easier to watch without subs than some other anime. I learnt to be able to follow these two from my partner JP, because he can watch anime without having studied Japanese, or knowing much Japanese outside of what he needs for understanding anime. JP is odd. He has a genuine gift for languages, so while I don't believe many of us mere mortals can develop quite the same way he did, he has actually helped me to reach a point where I can watch the new pokemon XY series without subs and follow just about the whole thing, missing surprisingly few details. He started by making me realise that there is really a core vocabulary for yugioh that once you learn, you'll be able to follow at least the battle scenes quite well. We started playing pokemon cards together and speaking in only Japanese. It exposed me to a lot of the same vocabulary that is used in yugioh, and it also built up my pokemon vocabulary. I find yugioh harder to watch than pokemon. I maybe catch about 40-60% of whats going on depending on the episode, while pokemon is about 70-90%, but compared to most mainstream anime, I feel quite comfortable watching yugioh when JP watches it live. Not that I have a clue who the characters are, or understand anything of the back-story and so on.. It sounds crazy, but I believe this theory whole-heartedly, I really do. Not only because I've experienced this for myself, but also there's that guy who always pops up on youtube who claims he 'became fluent in Japanese in on year' by watching Naruto. I don't believe for a second he became 'fluent' but based on how close his study method was to how JP picked up the language, and how so long as JP speaks like an anime character he too could fool someone into thinking he's fluent (if they knew nothing about grammar; he doesn't use it!), I do believe this guy managed to achieve a level where he could comfortably watch anime and exchange small-talk with native speakers, in just a year. I'm currently (slowly) putting together a vocabulary list for pokemon (I should really add what I have so far to that list), but I'd be willing to do the same for yugioh, with JP's help, if it's something you think could be helpful? Here's a handful of words you need off the top of my head.. (why do I feel I've done this before somewhere?) 発動 はつどう: activate (said when flipping your card over and also using an effect). 効果 こうか: effect 加える くわえる:to place down a card, but during the show, you most often hear this in the passive, Potential (my mistake, they use it as written on the cards in the context 'this allows me to add *** to the field'), 加えられる. JP hates this word because he can't say it! ^^ 召喚 しょうかん:Summon. Although my favourite variation of this word, is エクシーズ召喚 'Exceed summon'. Yes, it's ekushiizu not ekushiido, in case you think I made a typo). 攻撃 こうげき: attack 手札 てふだ:your hand (the cards you're holding). 山札 やまふだ: your deck, although you mainly hear this while they are in battle, at other times they say デッキ 装備 そうび This word means 'equipment' but as a suru verb means to attach things like spell cards; which is majikku ka-do' not 'mahou ka-do' because English words are keewl^^. You'll hear a lot of katakana words actually. I'm keeping this short, but I'll add them if anyone does want a more complete list. ターンエンド (turn end, said at the end of every single turn without fail), is possibly worth a mention here though. Oh and maybe ドロー (draw). Trust me, these words are said in EVERY SINGLE EPISODE of Yugioh. If you memorize the ones you didn't already know, then watch any battle on the show, you WILL hear these words, I promise. Once you train your ear to separate the monster and move names, the battles are basically these words, with various names, often in katakana, and a whole bunch of 'no way..' 'this can't be..' 'he's so strong' and so on. EDIT: I realised I'd made a mistake so I've crossed it out and corrected myself.
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Post by Bokusenou on Dec 6, 2013 23:54:27 GMT
I couldn't tell you. I was just passing on what I heard on the train ride back from the recent Teikyou festival. Well I honestly think pompoko is a masterpiece. Some of the visuals are breathtaking.. there are funny scenes and sometimes downright disturbing scenes. The tanuki use their testicles as weapons and they're visible pretty much all the time, but it stops being so distracting after a while (in the English dub, they translate it as 'raccoon pouch' lol). The soundtrack too is very good. I love the music that plays when it is springtime... you'll know it when you hear it.. There are lots of nods to Japanese culture too. The whole thing is just... oh just watch it already ^^ Ah, OK. Maybe I've just seen it on too many Ghibli urban legends sites...When I just started out reading Japanese seriously, I used to read a lot of Japanese Ghibli and anime urban legends sites. The content was fun to read, and they were all short & self-contained. The most common Ghibli ones were the "shinigami totoro" one, and the "Spirited Away as metaphor for prostitution" one. Sometimes I think people like making dark back stories for children-oriented things. Like the way there are all these dark urban legends about Disney movies. It would be cool if it's true though. I'm reminded of the creepy totoro picture which was popular a while back... OK, I will then! I also read somewhere that it had youkai, and I'm a big fan of youkai.^^
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Post by Jembru on Dec 7, 2013 1:53:59 GMT
I think I might have to watch pom poko sometime soon too. It's been a while since I last saw it so maybe I'll be able to follow more of it. Unlikely though. I could maybe follow more of the conversations the tanuki have between themselves than I could before, but naration is done in a kind of boradcasting style with news-type speech and quickly spoken. I'd like to see it again anyway, so it's hardly wasted listening practice I guess ^^
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Post by Jembru on Dec 15, 2013 9:35:12 GMT
Princess Mononoke was showing on Film 4 through the night, so I watched it while I was at work. I only caught half of it, but the Japanese wasn't nearly as old-style as I remember. I'd have to see it again, but maybe it is just the parts when Ashitaka was still in his home village that used old-man Japanese, or maybe it was never as bad as I thought and my Japanese is just better now than it was when I last saw it. I put stood some Christmas cards in front of the subs so I wasn't tempted to look, and what I realised was that, at least from the part I watched from, it's surprisingly easy to follow. Much more so than pompoko or some of the anime JP watches (like gintama.. I can't catch a word of that usually).
Much of Princess Mononoke was short sentences, with a pause while some kind of action happens, so your brain has time to process what you heard before the next line comes.. It was mainly the conversations with the mountain wolf that I couldn't follow much of. It felt like being at a conversation group gathering.. bits of conversation that were too much to follow so I just sit picking out the words I DO know and trying to guess what they're talking about, followed by times when the conversation changes to include me in which case I can give myself pauses to think: they just have to wait while I stare blankly at them, trying to recall what on earth 'shigeki' means again. The numerous parts where the sentences were short and the gaps between lines were long, were just like being able to take my time to reply. Of course, there were words I didn't know, in which case my good friends 'pause button' and 'jisho.org' helped me out, but the whole thing was so cool and I learnt a few new words, such as 'イノシシ' and '罠'. I love feeling like I understand Japanese and blocking out the reality of how far I really have to go!
If anyone hasn't seen it for a while, give it a watch and you'll see for yourself!
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Post by Bokusenou on Dec 15, 2013 21:33:49 GMT
I should really re-watch it sometime... The script is online if you feel like looking over some parts. Coincidentally, lately I've been watching the Making of Mononoke Hime on Youtube (unfortunately I couldn't find an unsubbed version...). It's very long, but I'm watching it one part at a time and savoring it.^^
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Post by Jembru on Dec 16, 2013 0:21:52 GMT
Oh thanks for sharing that!! I'll check tht out when my Japanese is better. I don't mind hiding the subs, but I'm still watching my childrens shows for now, lol.
Yeah, definitely watch it again sometime. I wish all anime was all short lines punctuated by long pauses. I'd be so much closer to fluency if it were!!
I realised something though.. I like the story of princess mononoke, but I've realised I'm not too keen on the asthetics of anime. There are of course, always beautiful scenes in Ghibli movies, and in other anime too, but there's something about the animation style that I don't really like for some reason (ducks to avoid the flying objects). That said, I'm definitely not siding with the anime haters who say the animation is all crappy. I think they're missing the point that anime is also an artform. I'm also not saying I dislike the look of it enough to let it put me off (if I don't let the smell of natto put me off eating it, I can ignore anything!), it was just something I became aware of while watching princess mononoke. It's like a thought that had been in the back of my mind for years, but I'd never fully realised until last night.
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Post by Bokusenou on Dec 16, 2013 3:07:15 GMT
Hmm, that's interesting about the animation style. I can kind of relate, since I'm not fond of 3D animation, or more like I can't bring myself to care about any character done in that style, which isn't too bad for comedy, but when things start to get serious...well let's just say I was surprised when a lot of people I knew mentioned they had cried at the ending of Toy Story 3, by that time the movie was halfway putting me to sleep! After that I started avoiding any 3D animated story with semi-dramatic subject matter, because I knew I wouldn't be able to get into it.
In that sense, you're lucky that your dislike of the art style doesn't interfere too much with your enjoyment of the films themselves.
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Post by Jembru on Dec 16, 2013 3:44:56 GMT
You've actually explained exactly why I felt like that. I didn't think of it that way, but it was the depth of the story, that made me notice there was something wrong. That's probably why I don't even think about the animation when we watch pokemon, because that's not meant to be taken seriously and each episode is basically the same story told slightly differently. It's brainless entertainment really. Mononoke though, is a really moving tale that challenges you to see a situation from two extreme but honest sides, and makes us take a long hard look at ourselves as a race (pompoko does this too, but I think it leaves a more bitter taste in the end, as you feel less of a sence of compromise, at least that's how I feel). The style somewhat distracts from that and scenes like the man's arm being chopped off, while meaning to be shocking, just come over as commical. I mean, we've seen much worse on Itchy and Scratchy!
Yet saying that, the silliness of the style actually adds a little in pompoko. I think because they take it overboard at times to create a contrast between the good and bad that helps to elicit different emotions in the viewer. I don't know enough about manga to know the different drawing styles, but they seem to use them all, from the crude chibi style they use for Kureyon Shin Chan, to scenes where the tanuki are drawn true to life woodland creatures, similar to the Animals of Farthing Wood. If pompoko was all serious, I don't think this would work, but as it is at times very silly and then switches to being deep, it somehow pulls it off.
You always manage to inspire me with new ideas Rin!
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Post by Bokusenou on Dec 16, 2013 19:24:27 GMT
Hmm, interesting! I'm reminded of a surprisingly brilliant book I read for one of my college classes, Understanding Comics. One of the things in it which stayed with me was that we all have a very vague idea of what our body looks like, such as when one thinks of their face when not in front of a mirror, or their hand when it's behind their back. This vague image looks closer to a stick figure than a photograph in the level of detail it has. Because of this, we associate low detail things with ourselves more, and high detail things with "the other", the outside world. Because of this, when we see a stick figure, it's easier for us to imagine oneself as it then it is with a photo.
The book went on to say that one of the reasons manga is good at showing emotion, and you see this in some Western comics as well, is that the main characters' facial designs are simpler than the other characters. I think this is why I tend to emphasize more with anime/manga than with live action shows. Anime/manga is really good at getting me to care about the characters, to almost become them, in a way I had only before experienced with books. Before I started watching anime I had never cried while watching a movie/show, and usually spent the whole time wishing the characters would fall off a cliff somewhere so it would end, or trying to stifle my laughter at the dramatic scenes to not ruin it for the people I was watching it with. Eventually I gave up trying to like movies and such, besides ones which gave up trying to be movies, and just philosophized the whole time. (Mindwalk, Waking Life, etc)
I read more books, because I could enjoy them more, and gave up on ever being able to care about a non-book character, until I found anime/manga. I realized after I read that book, part of what I like about anime and such, is that it can make me care about a character, and feel like I'm going through their struggles with them in a way that I thought could only be done by books. It doesn't always work though (The characters in Spirited Away & The Borrower Arrietty felt flat to me, and I couldn't care very much about any of them), but when it does I emphasize with them a lot, while with live action stories I always feel like I'm watching actors prance around, and pretend to be someone else. I can't suspend my disbelief. I think that's why a lot of anime series I like are dramatic/dark.
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Post by Jembru on Dec 17, 2013 1:20:01 GMT
Wow, that is genuinely fascinationg! You should definitely do an article on that some time! I love anything like that, that explains aspects of human behaviour. More than ever, I really want to get into anime. I think it will be easier as I leave upper-intermediate and move into advanced level. I think I have chosen the worst point in my studies to get into anime. As a beginner, I'd have watched dubbed versions or read the subtitles, as an advanced learner, I'll understand the bulk of what I hear and just need to glance at the subs now and then when a strange word appears. In both cases, I wouldn't be distracted by the grammar and vocabulary, so could get carried off by the story and characters. As it is, all I can focus on is the machanical workings of the language. I sit astonished as I notice grammar being used in new ways, or notice an idiomatic expression that we use in English too. I'm paying very little attention to the story and after watching an anime, I can explain only the crudest detail of what happened, with the obvious exception of pokemon.
I guess at the moment, you could all me an anime sympathiser, but I'm sure in a year's time (yes, I have decided I'll be advanced by my birthday in August if it kills me!), I'll be a massive fan!
Incidentally.. I had a dream today that Anna made a video in Japanese, where she and a friend heckled a clip from anime. She sounded like an anime character herself, like she'd only ever heard Japanese through anime or something. It was so weird. Of course, I've heard her Japanese and she has a very good, natural accent so I don't know what that dream was all about. ^^
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Post by Bokusenou on Dec 18, 2013 3:11:56 GMT
What's everyone's favorite anime Christmas movie/episode/special? My favorite is Tokyo Godfathers (godfather in the family sense in this case, not the mafia sense like I first thought). It's also my favorite Christmas movie period. It's ironic that Japan doesn't even make a big deal over Christmas, and yet a Japanese guy (Satoshi Kon, R.I.P) made a movie that captures the true meaning of Christmas (in the Western sense) so well. It's about 3 homeless people in Tokyo who find an abandoned baby in a dumpster on Christmas Eve. The movie may start slow, but once they find the baby I was hooked. I found it really refreshing, it wasn't sappy, yet it had a lot of heart. JembruI'm glad you also found it interesting! I love to read stuff like that as well. Hmm, I don't know if I can stretch it into an article though... Good luck! Another thing you might want to try is using Japanese subs from kitsunekko.net or somewhere. You just need to rename the sub file to have the same name as the anime file or it won't work.
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Post by Jembru on Feb 3, 2014 23:39:03 GMT
While I'm home alone, I'm taking the opportunity to watch some Japanese TV in peace. It seems a hugely popular voice actor has just passed away. His name is Ichiou Nagai. Do the anime fans know him? (JP seems to have a thing about recognising voice actors, so I'm guessing he's not unique amongst anime fans). It seems he's appeared in quite a lot and everyone is showing him so much love and respect. I think I should watch something he voiced in, to pay my own respects.
This made me think.. I don't know if my Japanese personally is good enough, and I can't watch Japanese tv as often as I like (just when JP is at work late or out with friends, but I tend to skype on those nights), but it might be nice to have a 'japanese news's thread. Those who watch the news in Japanese, could update on what's going on. I don't personally use the 'slowed down Japanese news' thing, but I know it was mentioned on gaiwa recently, so there must be others around who watch the news in Japanese (maybe that site is a day or two behind? Or is it just newsclips from ages ago?). Well, the only other thing they seem to care about today, is that they had a freak heatwave yesterday. Anyway, daytime TV is in full swing now.. gonna watch how to make noodles... Wait... Why did they just show the pope??? I wish I'd been paying attention...
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Post by chocopie on Feb 3, 2014 23:55:04 GMT
While I'm home alone, I'm taking the opportunity to watch some Japanese TV in peace. It seems a hugely popular voice actor has just passed away. His name is Ichiro Nagai. Do the anime fans know him? (JP seems to have a thing about recognising voice actors, so I'm guessing he's not unique amongst anime fans). It seems he's appeared in quite a lot and everyone is showing him so much love and respect. I think I should watch something he voiced in, to pay my own respects. He's done loads of stuff but he's probably most known for playing Sazae's father in Sazae-san. A news thread sounds cool!
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