|
Post by Jembru on May 22, 2014 14:58:19 GMT
Hi Vaiche, What you are doing seems fine however I would split the deck into more categories. This way you have more decks and can study more precisely. Also the smaller the decks the easier to control. I'm new to Japanese learning so mine currently are Hiragana Katakana Counting Systems Days and Dates JFBP Kana Workbook 1 All the above are shared except the last one which is words from a workbook I'm going through, I use this to revise. As you are studying Kanji someone else could better advise on what to split the categories into. Alan I used to do this and at one point had almost 30 decks. However, I stopped when I read the handbook that warns against breaking your decks down into categories like this. This apparently makes them easier to recall, due to mental linking, and seemingly that's a bad thing?? (Looking at your categories, I don't think it would pose an issue.. I just had a ridiculous amount.. 'minecraft words', 'words from chibimarukochan' 'words learnt from friends' 'words picked up from gaiwa' and so on..). I'm not sure how much of a difference it really makes, but I panicked in case I wasn't getting the most out of my anki sessions. So I mixed most of my decks up. I still have a few decks, but they are... 'Passive vocabulary': I write words in Japanese and I just have to recall the meaning. This allows me to enter a larger number of new words at once. When they feel familiar, I flip them then add them to 'main deck'. 'Main deck': This is all English -> Japanese and I often add sample sentences to remind myself of idiomatic uses, or the verbs that appear with the word etc. This is by far my largest deck ( just shy of 2,000 entries wait, no.. my entire anki is just shy of 2000.. main deck is 1,704). 'Japanense synonyms': This is how I bypass English. I am using this more and more and it is my second largest deck ( a few hundred entries again, when I actually checked, this is only 128 cards guess my vocabulary is lower than I thought ^^). If I learn a word and already know a similar word in Japanese, I use the familiar word as the prompt for the new word. Again, I can add sentences if there is a slight difference in nuance I want to make clear. 'Transitive intransitive pairs'; Because I can forget these. I also have an issue with mixing up wo and ga, so this deck allows me to give the word with its particle 'を伸ばす が伸びる' and so on. 'Opposite pairs': Again, this is just a way of letting me bypass the need for English prompts. It's also good practice to learn words as pairs in this way. 'Kanji': a series of compounds. I add new words as I learn a kanji. I'll add various compounds of that kanji (always using kanji I already knew so that only one kanji is novel in each new word), so I can get used to it's different readings quickly. Using familiar kanji helps to make the new words more memorable. 'Tricky Vocabulary': This is how I deal with leeches. If a word is marked as a leech, I unsuspend it and add it to tricky vocabulary. I then use mnemonics to help these words to stick, and even if I don't have time to do any other extra sessions, I always, without fail, do a custom session each day for this deck. In a custom session, you can fail yourself as many times as you wish and it won't affect the stats on that card (and thus won't cause it to be marked as a leech). When I feel I'm handling these words well, I move them back into their original deck. So I am kinda using a few different memorisation methods, and somehow, this seems to make it easier for me to memorise more new items at once, than it did when all I did was 'English -> Japanese'. This is just what works best for me though. It might not suit everyone, and the creators of anki would probably still disagree with how many decks I have.
|
|
AlanP
New Member
Posts: 31
|
Post by AlanP on May 22, 2014 16:08:37 GMT
Thanks Jem, I never realised that. I just didn't think it productive to have a deck so big that it would take ages to go through. Must read manual!!!
So far I've only been using one deck at a time. Hiragana till I learnt it, then Katakana. I could actually delete those decks I don't need them anymore.
Only one I'm currently using is the JFBP words I'm learning.
|
|
|
Post by Jembru on May 22, 2014 16:38:05 GMT
Well, like I say, I still have categories.. just fewer than I had before I read the manual! I felt the same way actually; that it would just take so long to get through a larger deck.. but actually, I find it a bit better than having to close one deck and open another. I maybe only lost seconds by doing so, but it still took a little longer. In the end, I think the manual is sort of a 'serving suggestion'. We all have our own unique learning styles, which is why the education system lets so many people down.. because it favours particular learning styles and labels those that don't fit that style as stupid... failing them over and over until they believe that themselves and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy. Ah, but that's a rant for another day... my point is that we need to play about until we find our own personal learning style, even if it seems to contradict what so-called 'experts' claim..
Oh btw, I checked after I posted my last post.. and I don't have several hundred cards in my synonym deck. There's only just over 100. Well, it sure feels like more ^^
|
|
|
Post by Jembru on Jul 3, 2014 19:02:32 GMT
Hey, I have a quick usage question that hopefully someone can help me out with. If not, I'll try to ask my friends tomorrow night (probably in English.. not sure I could word this in Japanese ^^).
It's about the giving verb くれる. If I am talking about someone explaining something on the TV, is is ever appropriate to use a giving verb, or do I just say something to the effect of 何々を教えた. If I am describing someone giving to someone who isn't close to me or in the conversation, it feels natural to use あげる, but in the case below, the person was giving information to me, as a viewer, so あげる doesn't seem appropriate.
Here's the context. I was watching a girly show and a guest on the show explained her skincare routine. I've since tried it and my skin has never felt so good! It'll be my forever routine now I think ^^
Being so excited at my younger looking skin, I spoke about it in my video journal. The thing is, because the lady told me her special secret, at the time it felt natural to say '教えてくれた'. Only afterwards when I played it back, did this feel somewhat awkward.
So is it ever normal to show respect to someone on a tv show like that, or is it best to stay neutral, even in the above context?
|
|
|
Post by chocopie on Jul 3, 2014 20:30:28 GMT
Jembru I would say から習った rather than 教えてくれた as I don't think it sounds quite right, but that's just my gut feeling. I'd be interested to know what your friends say! I thought about it a bit more and I think I think it's not right because it's not a personal enough situation to use くれる, but please ask your friends!
|
|
|
Post by Jembru on Jul 4, 2014 0:40:17 GMT
Thanks Chocopie. I'll ask if I remember to, but to be honest you already confirmed what I suspected. If we both think it's a little strange, I think I'm happy to avoid it in future. I think if I ask, I'll be told that while you might say it for ironic effect, it doesn't sound normal. Like, I can say silly things in English like, 'but the man on the telly told me it wouldn't rain today', which isn't really how we should word that, but IS how I speak when I'm in a playful mood.
|
|
|
Post by Underlig on Jul 7, 2014 8:54:35 GMT
I have a question, and it is probably dumb but japanese wikipedia is only confusing me. How do you use 史, can is be used after a word to mean "history of [word]"? or do you just say "[word]の歴史"?
history of japan=日本史 wikipedia said: スウェーデンの歴史 戦争史大観 英語史, in this article, it said: 英語史(えいごし)とは、英語の歴史である。 So it doesn't matter how you just it? are there rules? I know I could probably find out by looking at a lot of examples, but I decided to use your wisdom instead Thanks.
|
|
|
Post by chocopie on Jul 7, 2014 17:02:35 GMT
Underlig I think the basic difference is 「〇〇の歴史」 is "the history of XX", and 「〇〇史」 is "XX history". E.g. 'the history of the English language' vs 'English language history'. One would be more appropriate than the other depending on the situation. For example, in an academic setting 英語史 would be better than 英語の歴史 because you're now referring to a one word concept rather than a phrase.
|
|
|
Post by Jembru on Jul 10, 2014 22:39:28 GMT
Another quick one.. can you get away with using 'pon' to count videos, or is it only used with movies? I've been using it for a while to refer to the videos I make for my journal, but I can't help but notice that no one on youtube refers to their videos with pon.. I have only noticed 'kai'.
|
|
|
Post by chocopie on Jul 13, 2014 20:17:05 GMT
I think pon is ok. Kai sounds more like it refers to the number of times someone has made a video. Admittedly though I don't watch any Japanese youtubers...
|
|
|
Post by Jembru on Jul 14, 2014 6:07:52 GMT
Thanks. I'll keep using it until I'm corrected! The problem with watching youtubers is that you can't guarantee the quality of Japanese. Based off the fact I watch the Yogscast, native English speakers who frequently treat their viewers' ears to such scrumptious sentences as, 'what is happen?', 'I may have caught the tree on fire as I left' and 'it exploded my Charizard', (those last 2 were literally from the last 2 videos I watched) so I guess the native Japanese speaking youtubers I watch may suffer from similar grammar malfunctions. That said, when I can finally speak Japanese fluently, I'd much rather sound natural than 100% correct. I've met a few Germans with grammatically perfect English and they sounded kinda artificial! Also, I slur my grammar in English, so I don't mind accidentally picking up a few common errors... it will be more authentically 'me'! I'm just worried I might accidentally end up sounding like a Japanese chav! >.<
|
|
|
Post by Underlig on Jul 15, 2014 7:14:19 GMT
Underlig I think the basic difference is 「〇〇の歴史」 is "the history of XX", and 「〇〇史」 is "XX history". E.g. 'the history of the English language' vs 'English language history'. One would be more appropriate than the other depending on the situation. For example, in an academic setting 英語史 would be better than 英語の歴史 because you're now referring to a one word concept rather than a phrase. Thanks!
|
|
|
Post by Jembru on Aug 6, 2014 16:34:04 GMT
Right, I'm back to studying grammar, kanji and generally improving the quality of my written Japanese so I might be posting here a bit more from now on. I've changed how I use lang-8. I'm still going to be making a video first and then posting a transcript of what I say with as much as I'm personally able to correct, but then I'm going to be re-posting a corrected version. I'll leave both up (clearly labelled 'first draft' and 're-write', and I've posted to explain what I'm doing), so people don't just think I'm a dirty cheat, and so I can easily glance back to the raw copy to compare. That way I have a finalised version that I can copy by hand into my journal to practice handwriting but know that what I'm writing is correct Japanese. Something came up though.. A line I wrote was changed 2 different ways and so I inferred a rule as a result... (I've left endings out so they're all written in the plain form) I wrote: でも、一生懸命頑張ったのに、まだ楽に話せない。 Which became: でも、一生懸命頑張ったのに、まだ楽に 話すことは出来ない。 And: 一生懸命頑張った けど、まだなかなか楽に話せない。 So I decided that 'のに' probably just feels more natural with 'ことができない' and けど flows better with ~えない. I even went so far as to assume a difference in nuance between these 2 potential forms, with ことができない being more subjective. I was happy with that and wrote it IN PEN in my brand new shiny notebook. I then posted the re-write having had to chose one correction over the other, opting for the former because I figured it sounded more like I was moaning than just stating facts. Then in the re-post, while it wasn't corrected, someone left me a note below the line saying; まだ楽に話すことは出来ない。= まだ簡単には話せない。Implying that either could have worked after all (unless somehow using 簡単 changes the rule altogether, which I kinda doubt). Did I imagine the rule? Is it just because Japanese is less confined by rules than English is, so what is correct is more a matter of personal taste. Or did the person on my second draft just want to show me there's another way and hadn't really considered the conjunction I'd used? I kinda want this to be a real rule. So much so that I think I'll at least impose it on my own Japanese from now on even if it isn't!
|
|
|
Post by chocopie on Aug 11, 2014 14:54:51 GMT
I don't think there is such a rule, but there are people on lang-8 who rephrase what you write in the way they would write it, especially when you're no longer making obvious grammar mistakes.
でも、一生懸命頑張ったのに、まだ楽に話すことは出来ない。 Sounds like there's more emphasis that just using 話せない. 一生懸命頑張ったけど、まだなかなか楽に話せない。 Depending on what came before it, using けど in the middle may have flowed a bit better than でも at the beginning.
But who knows. Once on lang-8 I was talking about my kettle breaking and how unnatural it felt to have a kitchen without a kettle, which someone then corrected from 'unnatural' to 'inconvenient'. I had to explain to them that I definitely meant unnatural because it was my opinion.
|
|
|
Post by Jembru on Aug 11, 2014 18:38:37 GMT
Chocopie!!! I hadn't seen you around for a little while and was starting to worry you'd left us. I was all 'Chocopie!! 私のこと見捨てないでよ!' Then I log in and see it was all in my head and I probably just need to cut down on the coffee.
Aww, I'd really hoped it was a rule. I know what you mean about the feedback though. I realised from reading corrections of people's English that what one person considers 'correct English' isn't necessarily what I would. There is also often a translation issue I think. I started adding English to my rough drafts so people who know English can see exactly what I had been trying to say. That can be blessing and a curse though. People sometimes think they understand your English but don't and end up rewording your Japanese to something you didn't mean. I saw this recently when someone was correcting a Japanese contact's English. He'd written 動く、歩く、話す等は全て動詞と言います in his Japanese version so his English was changed to 'We say the verbs 動く, 歩く and 話す.' The person translating clearly hadn't learnt this grammar and was just translating the words, creating some pretty weird English in the process.
So I do try to take some feedback with a pinch of salt. Especially when the sentence I used was almost an exact duplicate of a sentence I stole from elsewhere. For example, I wrote about taking Dolly to the vet once and in a jpod lesson a girl was talking about taking her friends dog to the vet so I just copied that sentence. It was changed from '獣医さんにつれって行った' to '獣医さんのところに連れて行った'. I remembered thinking it was weird that Jpod would be wrong.
Then you recommended that shadowing book and I saw in Unit 1, section 2, track 12 'ひどくならないうちに、早く歯医者さんに行ったほうがいいよ。' and realised it's nonsense that you need 'tokoro' after the practitioner you're going to see.
I've concluded that they're just a little more pedantic about written Japanese than they are when it is spoken, maybe from overbearing teachers correcting their 作文 in school.. I've heard these get posted on the classroom wall and shown to parents, and their Japanese has to be absolutely perfect as it's more about how it's written than what they've written about.
|
|