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Post by Jembru on Nov 23, 2014 2:49:09 GMT
これを日本語のみ部分に投稿したかったけど、日本語では意味をうまく伝えるか分からないところが多いので、分かりやすくするように、英語も追加しておいたほうがいいと思った。
Excuse the shameless sloppiness of my Japanese here. I'm at work so don't have time to double check my grammar and what have you, besides freely writing as it comes is kinda fitting for the subject matter. All the same, I'm putting this here rather than the Japanese only section, so that people can see what I was trying to say.
この前ちょっとした啓示を受けてしまった。しばらくの間、楽しみだけのために日本語を学ぶという概念を思考していた。ずいぶん長期間無理やり自然より早く上達するように努力したり、ありえないほど言葉を詰め込んだりしていた。いつしか、自分のことを知らなくなってきちゃった。
先週、同僚の神聖的な話を聞いているとき、私を再び知り合う時間になったことが思いついた。さらに、自分の全体を表せるべきだと思う。つまり、日本語をもっと適切な生活の一部にしたいんだ。日本語は楽しいから、あくまで趣味にしたいってこと。日本語能力に不安になることが多すぎるけど、何で?日本語が私を悲しませるなら、楽しい趣味じゃないというわけでしょう。人生にはしなくちゃならない面倒くさいことはもうたくさんあるので、一体なぜ人はそういう悲しませる趣味をしたくなるかな?全然意味がないでしょう。
そうして、せっかく詳しく予習したけど、今年の最後の勉強計画を破り捨てた。N2の試験で必要になる漢字を全て勉強するつもりだったりしたけど、なんで?来年、教科書を読みながら漢字を時々しらべてもいいでしょう。誰にも知らせる必要もないしね。
代わりに、ほかのガイワのメンバーの例を追随したいと思う。例えば、「I actually like taking tests though, because it feels like a game to me. I just know I'll do my best.」と述べたRekaRyuuseiさんとか、学習者向きアプリから、日本人向きまで種々ゲームで楽しみながら日本語の腕を磨くDemonheadさんの真似したほうがいいと絶対に思うよ!
それじゃ、今から日本語は楽しいことだけやると決まった!文法をよく間違えたり、なかなか言葉が考えられなくて英語を使わなければならなくなったりしても問題はないよ。日本語で話しをする人のほとんどは友達だから。わたしの弱点が受け取れない人は深く付き合わない方がいいと思う。
アンキは私にとって脳トレのふうに、ただのゲームになってきた。Lang-8にも意図的に書かないで、好きな仲間たちと有意義な話を楽しむために日本語を使うことを目的にした!そうやって書いた物をLang-8に投稿するだけでいいと思う。仕事じゃない感じになるので。
また、この時期は読解力を上げるようにするつもりだったから、やっぱりポケモンも再開したのは自然だよ!今回は漢字付き^^ 言葉を調べたり無視したりしている。新し言葉を楽に身について行っているけど、ゲームを楽しむのは一番重要!
これで、頑張り屋っていうジェマはいなくなっちゃったよ!これは生活が改まったことだったりして!何てったって友達と過ごしや精神性に暇があること!
この旅途中色んな勉強方法を試みた。非常に効果的な方法も時間や知力を無駄使う方法もあることを分かってきた。それより、外国語の勉強は深く個人的なことにも気づいた。っていうことは、同じ要求がある人はいないってこと。誰にもいい言語を習得するコツはなさそう。それを言っても、私個人に完璧な方法をやっとう発見したと思う!
I've had a revelation of sorts. For a while now I've been inspired by the idea of studying for the pure joy of it. For too long I've been striving for some ideal, and have managed to lose myself in the process.
Something just snapped last week while listening to a colleague talking about a recent spiritual experience, and I realised it is time to express other parts of myself again. That is, I want Japanese to take its proper place in my life.. a hobby that I do because it is fun, and only so long as it is fun. There are too many cases where Japanese makes me feel sad or inadequate. If Japanese can make me sad, then it is no longer fun and as there is enough in the average human being's life that gives no joy but can't be avoided, why ever would someone choose a hobby that doesn't make them happy?
So I literally tore up my study plan for the next 8 weeks. I was going to study all kanji up to N2 that I don't already know. Why? Who cares if I have to look up some characters in order to follow my textbooks next year?
Instead, I'm following the examples set by other gaiwa members. Like RekaRyuusei, who remarked 'I actually like taking tests though, because it feels like a game to me. I just know I'll do my best.', or Demonhead who makes use of games to learn Japanese, from apps aimed at learners, to full-blown console games scripted for a native speaking audience.
Japanese is now something I do for fun. If I need to say something in English because I lack vocabulary, or if my grammar is jumbled, so what? I only speak Japanese to friends anyway, and anyone who can't accept my short comings, is no friend to me. Anki is just a game to me now.. like a brain trainer. I won't write specifically for lang-8 anymore, but instead focus on using Japanese to communicate meaningfully with people I care about, on subjects that excite me.. copying them to lang-8 afterwards. Because then it won't feel like work.
Oh and of course, as this time was meant as a 'reading course', I'm playing pokemon again.. with the kanji on this time. I look up some words, ignore others.. just generally enjoy the game and soak up new words gradually as I meet them.
So Try Hard Jem is gone, but hopefully this is a fresh start, a new relationship with Japanese. Best of all, I now have more time for friends and my spirituality.
I've explored so many different learning methods on this journey, some very effective, some wasteful of time and cognition. I've learnt that study is a very personal activity.. and as such no two people have the same requirements. There is no 'one size fits all' miracle trick to mastering a language. I'm fairly confident though, that I've finally found the best fit for me!
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Post by Jembru on Jan 23, 2015 15:07:00 GMT
2015が始まってからもう3週間が過ぎたのは新しい勉強方法も三週間試したっていう意味だ。今まで、随分よく行っているみたいんだ。前回の投稿に話した通り、勉強に対して態度が全然変わったよ。完全にすっきりな感じになってきたよ。自信がやっとう得て、毎日少し進歩して日本語能力はこれから上がる一方と信じるし。日本語で流暢になるという望みはぜひ叶えるよ。負けないよ!
今年は日本語に没入することにしたり、日本語だけでノートを書いたりしているのに、今年の方式は去年のに比べてそんなに厳しくない。楽しみながら学んでいるから、全然仕事じゃないような感じだ。
そういえば、今年からの学習を上級だと私が呼んでいるけど、実際には上級にまだまだなっていないの。それで、皆に「そのほど日本語だけで上級なつもりなんて、ありえない!」と思われたくないので、はっきり説明させてください。
私、うまく話せるほどだけに上達したいので、書き言葉や尊敬語などをちゃんと覚える必要はない。だから、本物の上級学習者より日本語を知るように決してならないかも知れない。でも、勉強を止めたら日本語をもちろん使い続けるつもりなんだから、いつか普通の上級人になる可能性がなくもないでしょう。それでも、どの話題の会話にも自由に参加できるようになることだけは目的だよ。もう日常会話は大丈夫ほど上達するというゴールを去年中とうとう達成したが、言いたいことをなんとか伝えられるのに、日本語をよく間違えるし、言葉を頼めなきゃならないし、簡単な日本語だけで話すから、今から会話の腕を磨きたいよ。
去年のくれ、今年の勉強方法のために日本語能力試験のN2教科書を二冊買っておいた。届いて途端、文法のをちらっと広読みしなくちゃいられなかった。そうするとびっくりしちゃった。最初の3つページには私が知らない文法がなにもなかった。数年前N2応募者向けのポッドキャストを聞いたことあるから、N3文法を分かるようになる前にも何かN2文法を使ったのを分かったけど、そのほど覚えたことを全然知らなかって驚いた。漢字にもびっくりした。去年の8月までに漢字はなんかどうでもいいと思ったから、やっぱりN2は私がまだ読めない文字を結構の数含んでいるけど、JLPTの順序通らないで覚えたので、もう読める漢字もあって嬉しいだ!日本の小学校二年生は学ぶ漢字もN2に出ることにもびっくりしたけど。
でも、テストで点を取るほど理解できるのは自分の言った日本語には使えるとは限らないと分かる。そして、会話に使われる構造を練習することにしている。
じゃ、今年の勉強仕方は上級風なのに、とりあえず大体中上級の日本語だけを勉強だ。このごろ階級にあまりこだわらないので、軽蔑されないなら、人は何も考えてかまわないよ!
I'm not even going to try to translate that word for word.. I thought if I forced myself to post in Japanese when writing these progress updates, it would stop me waffling on and on.. how wrong I was. I never even said what I came to say in the end! I was meant to describe my new study system. Haha. Oh well, maybe next time.
So, it's already been 3 weeks since 2015 started which means I've been trying out the new study style for 3 weeks. It's going surprisingly well so far. As I said in my last post, my attitude towards studying has completely changed. I feel so different. I've finally found my confidence and because I can see that I'm making a little bit of progress every day, I really believe that I'll keep on getting better and better. I can realise my dream!
You know, even though I'm immersing myself in Japanese as much as possible and keeping my notes in Japanese, this year actually feels more relaxed than last year. I think because I'm enjoying myself now, it doesn't really feel like work anymore.
Actually, that reminds me. I consider this to be my 'advanced level study', but I don't want people to misunderstand this and think 'omg, is she for real? Thinking she's advanced with such a poor level of Japanese'. So please let me clarify.
You see, I'm only concerned with being able to speak Japanese, so I have less need for things like written style, or humble Japanese and so on. Just being able to vaguely recognise such things should be enough. So I'll probably never know the same things as a true advanced student. Of course, I don't intend to ever quit studying, so it's possible that I'll learn these things one day, but for now, being fluent in the sense of being able to join in with conversations no matter what the topic is, is my goal. Last year I finally reached the point where I was able to join in with every day conversation, but I still make hundreds of mistakes, have to keep asking for words and use only simple sentences, so I still want to improve my speaking.
I bought myself a couple of N2 textbooks at the end of last year, ready for this year. Of course, I couldn't resist thumbing through nihongo somatome when it arrived. I was really surprised to see how much N2 grammar I already knew. There was nothing new to me until page 4. Thanks to a podcast I listened to a few years ago, I used to know more N2 grammar than N3, but I didn't realise the extent to which I'd learnt. I've been studying kanji in a different order to the JLPT, but I was pleased to learn that I knew some of the characters that appear at N2, even if there are plenty I don't yet know.
Of course, I know that just recognising grammar enough that I could score points on a test doesn't mean I could use them when speaking, so I'm being sure to practice any structures that are common in spoken Japanese.
So yeah, the methods I'm using may be more advanced, but for now I'm still just studying upper intermediate Japanese. I'm not really bothered about levels anymore though, so, so long as no one looks down on me, I don't mind what they think.
As usual, I'm sorry if the Japanese version is illegible. This already took over 2 hours to write so I really don't want to double-check just now. I tend to write some pretty bogus things when I don't check my kanji and grammar, so do let me know if I've said anything surreal so I can change it. Maybe I'll put it on lang-8.
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Post by Jembru on Feb 5, 2015 11:49:51 GMT
I'm going to invoke the rule that 'Japanese OR English' is fine in this forum, and write this in English only. This is for 2 reasons; the first is that as I proved in my last post which was meant to be about what I've come to write here, I go off on too many tangents which makes typing it out twice a royal pain. This will be pretty long I'm sure, so I've put aside a full hour to work on it! The second reason is that I actually struggle to explain some of these points when I've tried to talk about it in Japanese, so I plan on posting about it on lang 8 at some point. Maybe when I've done that, I'll come back one day and translate this.. I wouldn't count on it though.
So I want to talk about my 'four golden rules' or '4つの鉄則' as I've been calling them in Japanese. Last year I had a really rigid plan for studying, broken down into short 'courses' based on my weakest areas. I think it was quite effective, I definitely made some progress and I learnt how to manage my study time better. Something was missing though, and as I want to study more immersively this year, to really force myself to progress quickly to advanced level, I felt I needed something that better supported this new study style.
It was then that I decided I wanted a less restrictive system. No more 'study from such and such 3 times per week', 'drill such-and-such every day before bed' and so on. I wanted something I could just casually dip into.. where everything was optional. Something that felt freer, more enjoyable and well, in line with the premise of this thread; 努力より楽しさ!
So I decided to make a list of all the things that were important or useful to me. Everything from using a study timer to my favourite resources went on there.
I then went over the list and looked for categories that I could lump things together into. Was there something connecting the study timer with listening to music while I study? What about keeping my notes in Japanese? Does that connect some way to the reason I enjoy watching youtube videos in Japanese? I continued in this way until everything had been assigned a category. Then I repeated the process to see if the categories could be further condensed into fewer categories. Thus my 'four golden rules' were born. If you've noticed my user panel on the left, these might sound familiar. They are: Immersion, Simplicity, Relevance and above all else, Joy
Immersion
This speaks for itself really. As far as possible I am studying from materials that are in Japanese. English for the purpose of translation is permitted, and I've started using Remembering the Kanji to get Kanji out of the way quickly, but otherwise I am only using books and online resources that are written/spoken in Japanese. My notes too are all in Japanese now. I wish I'd started doing this sooner. It's so much easier than I ever imagined it was going to be.
Simplicity
I almost left this out and had just 3 rules (and ironically that would have been an application of this rule!) but in the end I thought it best to remind myself not to over-complicate things again. Last year things just got too complicated.. however I studied, it had to have clear warm up, main body and free practice sections. All new words had to be treated a particular way, I had activities I'd do routinely before bed, from bed, upon waking... while at work... It was exhausting. Studying in Japanese is intensive on its own. You're reviewing large amounts of vocabulary in a very short time compared to less immersive methods. A 12 minute conversation on lingQ for example, can contain up to 2,000 words. On anki the most words I can review in 12 minutes is around 100. So with that degree of intensity, I can afford to, and indeed owe it to myself, to take things a bit more easy. So I made myself a little chart based on study areas (reading, kanji, grammar and so on). I simply tick this whenever I've studied something. I can study whatever takes my fancy, but if I'm not sure what to do, a quick glance at the chart will show me what areas I've been neglecting, so maybe I should study that next. That is as complicated as my study plan gets now!
Relevance
This is an accumulation of things like 'playing minecraft in Japanese', 'watching Japanese makeup tutorials', 'chatting to friends' and so on. I've always felt that it is a bit wasteful of time to just study vocabulary indiscriminately. This is one of my many excuses reasons for not wanting to take the JLPT. Although admittedly the vocabulary that appears on these exams is selected to be general enough that most people of any given level should be at least somewhat familiar, I just don't want to waste brain space on words related to driving (I don't drive), or cooking (can't cook, won't cook), when I could be learning how to describe the biome I'm lost in, or coordinate the creation and subsequent slaughter of a wither. However 'relevance' isn't just about studying from material I find personally appealing, but is also about using the language communicativly. Part of this immersive approach is about teaching my brain to recognise that Japanese is a living language that I need to be able to function fully in. So while it isn't a hard and fast rule (I'm trying to do away with such things), I make a habit of trying to use Japanese before I study it. This means either posting in Japanese on Gaiwa (maybe you've noticed my Japanese posts have crept up lately?), writing on facebook, chatting on skype, posting on lang-8 (or at least replying to feedback/messages in Japanese) or just rattling off a quick video journal. I try to 'earn' my study sessions by completing one of the above actions first.
Joy
This goes back to what I was saying in my first post here. Basically, I will only study for as long as it's fun. Once I get stressed, frustrated or upset, it is time to stop and do something else. I've worked hard to create a more optimistic mindset using cognitive therapy techniques. I've learnt to consider my ability in terms of what I can do, instead of always defining myself by my weaknesses. I do have little dips still though, so to keep myself positive I made a playlist of tracks that remind me of happy things in Japanese; songs I've sang on karaoke, anime I've enjoyed (maybe you remember me writing about the effect of listening to the soundtrack of Welcome to the NHK has on me? Or how while not so much the anime, pokemon once played a massive role in my life). This cheesy up-beat playlist plays in the background when I study, reminding me of earlier times when I thought Japanese was a piece of cake and I was sooo special for knowing 400 words ^^ 'Hi I'm Jemma.. I know Japanese.. please love me' ^^
Of course, I also have a slightly worrying obsessive affinity for my stationary. Being surrounded by these lovely things while I study definitely helps to up my joy levels. Also, like last year, I have a special scent that I use in my study area and can wear when I'm out with Japanese speaking friends, instantly taking my mind back to all those happy squishy feelings!
Well, there you have it. My 4 golden rules for studying in 2015! I am soo glad I decided to write that in English only (10 minutes over my limit: yes.. that took 70 minutes to write.. and I haven't even read it over for typos yet). Phew!
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Post by Bokusenou on Feb 6, 2015 2:45:51 GMT
Great rules Jembru! I especially agree about the importance of joy in the learning process. Most of the things I read and watch for entertainment are in Japanese, so before I knew it Japanese became like my "entertainment language" and English is my "work & daily life language". While I still study, having most of my entertainment-focused media and books in Japanese is good motivation not to slack off, as a lot of those things aren't translated into English. Basically, finding things in Japanese which I enjoy has been a great motivator for me, and I recommend it to all Japanese learners.
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Post by Jembru on Feb 7, 2015 4:35:20 GMT
Definitely! I think it all went wrong for me when I tried to become fluent in a year (gosh, that was over 3 years ago now and I'm still a long way from fluent >.<). I got this idea in my head that my studies had to be 'intensive' which meant 'hard', 'rigid', 'regimented'. I was gutted when I realised on Jan 1st 2013, that I couldn't speak well enough to make a video in Japanese. It was a few months after that, that I met the first fluent speaker of Japanese as a second language that I'd ever met (yes, that includes when I lived in Japan, can you believe!). I started to meet more after that, and discovered the reality about how long it takes to master Japanese, from those who have done so, rather than someone on the internet claiming it's possible to be fluent in a year.
Unfortunately, I couldn't just relax and accept that it's going to be around 4-6 years before I'm speaking at the level I'm aiming for. Instead, I kept up that same intensity, and simply added different study methods.. started using anki and making video journals. I STILL wasn't focusing enough on the language as a language, and was just cramming and cramming vocabulary and grammar rules.. never practising them to see if I'd truly grasped what I 'knew', never experiencing them in context.
I worked so hard.. day in, day out.. nose to the grindstone. So then when I'd try to use the language and find that even basic grammar was causing me trouble, or that I'd struggle to keep up with what people were saying to me, it just made me feel depressed and hopeless. I came close to quitting so many times.
Something just snapped last November though. It was like a fog had lifted. My confidence has just snowballed since then. I'm not sure when I'll be fluent, but I'd much prefer that it happens in it's own sweet time, rather than being forced at the cost of my enjoyment.
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Post by chocopie on Feb 7, 2015 23:39:08 GMT
Ah yes, the 'fluency' claim. Does it mean 話はペラペラ? A native-like grasp of the language? Equivalent to your own skills in your first language? Language learning is definitely a case of 'the more you know, the more you realise you don't know' or whatever that phrase is. I'm 100% confident in saying I'm alright at Japanese, but there's so much more I can still learn! Being able to enjoy just using the language though is so important. My listening and conversational skills improved massively when I took a year off actively studying and just watched a lot of drama.
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Post by Jembru on Feb 8, 2015 1:05:49 GMT
Yeah, I think 'fluent' means something different to everyone. When I was teaching, we graded all students on 'fluency', 'accuracy', 'vocabulary' and 'grammar' after every session. Even beginners could score 5/5 for 'fluency'. The 'fluent' I'm aiming for, is probably about the language skill of a 14 year old. So I'd be able to enjoy popular media and hang out with friends easily, but I imagine I'll always feel dizzy at the sight of scientific journals, or broadsheet newspapers.
I describe my Japanese as 'functional' when asked about my skill by the uninitiated. I explain that I can communicate my intended meaning to other Japanese speakers, but it's not particularly elegant, and there's still a lot I don't understand.
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