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Post by Jembru on Nov 6, 2014 12:57:11 GMT
I think you've hit the nail on the head there demonhead. Try as I might, I couldn't get into memrise and now you mention it, I'm pretty sure it was the inputting. Sometimes the English was so vague. For example, the deck I was using was in kana order so had 現す 現れ 現れる really close together. Seeing the English prompt 'to show, to indicate, to display' didn't seem obvious as to whether they meant the transitive or intransitive verb. Then of course there's the fact that in textbooks and dictionaries the form 表せる appeared to be pretty common for describing words, so I ended up having to guess between several possible answers. It happened more often than I care to think about. @.@
Shame though, because it's such an attractive looking application. Maybe your idea is the way to go. Sure you'll forget some words, but many will appear again in other decks, so you'll get some reinforcement over time.
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Post by 魔 on Nov 7, 2014 17:53:17 GMT
Sure you'll forget some words, but many will appear again in other decks, so you'll get some reinforcement over time. That was my thought too. A lot of words will be repeated, so it's not like you'll only be doing them once. I remember an article that said you'll learn a word after hearing it 160 times. I'm not sure if the brain does forget things. If you introduce yourself to the word then it might be stored somewhere in there. I wouldn't listen to people who think they have the brain figured out. Telepathy obviously exists in some way, but is almost completely ignored. Memrise is good for the initial learning of the word. Then I think reviewing it elsewhere would be better. Memrise is also good for typing practice. So maybe do the planting on memrise and then start the same course on anki or some other thing for the reviews. The typo errors and things makes memrise too unreliable. I don't want to spend time pissing about with things I already know and just want to refresh myself on. A good thing with anki is you manage to finish the courses. It has a set amount of new words added along with the old ones. On memrise you end up with having so much to water that you rarely do any planting. After doing 300 or so reviews I don't really feel like planting. Another site for reviewing words I've found is kanji box . It's the fastest I've found for reviewing words. It is 1 click to answer and uses multiple choice with 4 choices. ... I thought I'd try an English course so I could more easily distinguish what words I already know. So that I can decide what to ignore easier. What I found out was, that if I go by the definition on each word. I wouldn't ignore any. Even though I know what all the words mean. I don't know the definition, so I think I don't know the word. A couple of words threw me off. I'd forgotten what knickers were(I think I've gotten too used to the term panties). I didn't know a bikini could be considered 2 pieces.(I was thinking of that one piece bikini) Going through an English course once could also benefit me in someways. Although I think my English has also improved through learning Japanese.
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Post by Jembru on Nov 7, 2014 21:07:49 GMT
You know, I completely agree with you that there is so much more to the human mind that we're yet to discover. That's pretty much why I use meditations and affirmations.. I'm hoping that I can encourage my sub-conscious to open up and let me access those buried words. I can't think of a better way to describe them, but I mean, like you said, those words I don't consciously know yet but are surely in my mind. There is too much evidence that people can be made to recall events they have no conscious memory of, under hypnosis, so these words must be in there somewhere.
I've also started to believe that our Actually, never mind. I'll be typing all night if I start talking about the mysteries of the human mind..
So, do you think it is better not to get too obsessed over precise definitions? Would it be better to just take words at face value and learn their exact use instinctively when we see how native speakers use them?
I get overwhelmed by the volume of vocabulary. You know I've been practicing just 1st and 2nd grade kanji yeah? Well, the amount of new words I've discovered that are combinations of just these kanji, is incredible. When I learn higher grades, the possible combinations will surely grow exponentially. What's worse is that most of these words do seem necessary, so I try to learn them all. I don't know how to narrow it down to words I REALLY need. Other than going off the core vocabulary decks on anki maybe?
When I stop and think about how much I still don't know, I wonder how I ever make it to the end of a sentence. It makes me feel so stressed.
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Post by 魔 on Nov 8, 2014 16:11:32 GMT
So, do you think it is better not to get too obsessed over precise definitions? Would it be better to just take words at face value and learn their exact use instinctively when we see how native speakers use them? I just like completing things. Play a game, start a new game. Watch an anime, start a new anime. Rather than being stuck on one thing. Probably why I just want to do planting. I'm getting impatient with how long it would take me to complete them. Being a native doesn't mean they know everything. There are native English speakers who can't read or write. Make spelling errors and whatever. I will just aim to know more than those Japanese children born when I started learning Japanese. Toddlers now I think.. I'm sure I am still ahead in the race.
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Post by Jembru on Nov 9, 2014 16:15:19 GMT
Bad spelling? What are you trying to say exactly? lol
That's not a bad aim to have! In fact, you've made me think about maybe deliberately studying Japanese by grade (using websites aimed at Japanese school kids, reading manga or watching anime aimed at kids of that age and so on). Something to think about at least. I might have tried that from the start had I realised how long it was going to take me to learn.
Having said that, my Japanese friend has taken up a job in Tokyo for a year. She had already been raising her 2 year old bilingually, and I'm pretty sure when she returns next year, aged 3, her Japanese will be way better than mine. She's already made friends with a Japanese boy who she plays with all the time. It's going to be so embarrassing when she returns and starts correcting me!
So, is English not your first language? Just, you do speak with a definite regional accent.
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Post by 魔 on Nov 9, 2014 16:31:09 GMT
Only my baby language. That is lost now though. I don't think natives are perfect, they make many mistakes without realising, but still consider themselves fluent. That's not a bad aim to have! In fact, you've made me think about maybe deliberately studying Japanese by grade (using websites aimed at Japanese school kids, reading manga or watching anime aimed at kids of that age and so on). Something to think about at least. I might have tried that from the start had I realised how long it was going to take me to learn. If all Japanese children were born with fluent English, I don't think they'd ignore it so that they could learn Japanese "authentically". How did you learn English when you were a child? I used to watch disney movies, the same ones over and over again. Then I'd watch movies with シュワちゃん and jean claude van damme. over and over. Play the same games, over and over. I didn't just watch movies and play games that were for my age. Most of what I know, I didn't learn from school. Also, Here's a video you reminded me of.
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Post by Jembru on Aug 30, 2015 19:44:34 GMT
Has anyone checked out the new speed review feature on Memrise? It's a godsend! It's harsh, because the time you get to recall each character decreases with every correct answer (and doesn't resent when you get one wrong for some reason), but there's no typing!! So no more being forced to review a character you know well for writing 'nostalgic' instead of 'nostalgia' (thanks for making me hate that character memrise.. grr..), so it's just a rapid point and click. It really helps you to burn through a backlog of reviews quickly. Definitely check it out if you're a memrise user. Also... Only my baby language. That is lost now though. I don't think natives are perfect, they make many mistakes without realising, but still consider themselves fluent. That's not a bad aim to have! In fact, you've made me think about maybe deliberately studying Japanese by grade (using websites aimed at Japanese school kids, reading manga or watching anime aimed at kids of that age and so on). Something to think about at least. I might have tried that from the start had I realised how long it was going to take me to learn. If all Japanese children were born with fluent English, I don't think they'd ignore it so that they could learn Japanese "authentically". How did you learn English when you were a child? I used to watch disney movies, the same ones over and over again. Then I'd watch movies with シュワちゃん and jean claude van damme. over and over. Play the same games, over and over. I didn't just watch movies and play games that were for my age. Most of what I know, I didn't learn from school. Sorry for not seeing this post at the time. I'd forgotten about this conversation and the fact I'd considered studying from materials aimed at kids last year. I must have wished it really hard, because this spring, I ended up with a bunch of kokugo texts for both mainstream school and juku. I later ordered a kokugo dictionary from Japan. I've been using these as the backbone of my study ever since and personally love it! I had originally banned English altogether while studying, but I came to the same conclusion as you; that if you already have a complete language, it's a waste not to draw on that sometimes when studying your new language. So now I don't mind using English for the sake of translation if a word or phrase can't be easily explained in Japanese. I also have a review book that I fill in after a study session and that's all in English besides the vocabulary themselves. Somehow, reflecting on what I just learnt in English seems to help it stick better than when I was only doing this in Japanese. It's impossible to know if this is an efficient way to study, saying as I can't clone myself for comparison, but I definitely feel engaged and excited by the material and find studying enjoyable again. That's what matters, right? EDIT: I just watched the video. That's EXACTLY what I'm doing, yeah! Even down to the Japanese dictionary (although I should come clean and admit that if a word isn't in my kokugo dictionary, I tend to use jisho.org over kotobank). The kanji book she shows in that video is practically identical to the ones I'm using. Only mine have pokemon.. wait.. I shared a picture somewhere.. here it is!
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