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Post by Jembru on Mar 2, 2014 3:15:22 GMT
We have threads for anki and lang-8, so I thought we could use one for memrise too.
I actually have a question about the program to kick-start the discussion, and I know some of you have used the program so may be able to help.
I wasn't too impressed last time I tried it, but I think it was more to do with me choosing a poor deck that I felt was wasting my time making me drill words I already knew. It probably needs some kind of 'skip this word' option, so we can ignore words that are already well-known to us. (EDIT: Never mind, I found out how to ignore words before you start planting)
I've given it another go and seem to have found a more appropriate deck. It still contains words I know, but that's unavoidable when you've had no structure to your learning, and there's still a good number of new words, and plenty of words I'm yet to learn the reading of. I have a habit of mixing up similar sounding or looking words, and the course I've found is in kana order, so similar words pop up together. So even if I know the words, it's helping me notice differences in similar words, which can only be a good thing.
My question though, is.. does the program make a note of words you took longer to master, and keep testing you later on? Or once you've finished a section, even though the word isn't very solid in your memory, will it never show up again unless you 'water' that deck? So, for all I'm currently working through あ, so can I expect あ words to pop up for review when I'm working through ぬ? Or does it not work like that?
If words won't carry over to later sections, then I'll make a note and add tricky words to anki, but otherwise, I can use this program separately when I'm bored of anki for the time being and not worry about passing words between to the two.
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Post by chocopie on Mar 4, 2014 19:02:38 GMT
From what I recall it's kind of like anki so it'll keep bringing up words from older finished sections.
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Post by Jembru on Mar 4, 2014 19:26:54 GMT
Ah, thank you, that's a relief! I think I'm going to write some on anki anyway. It's probably just the course I'm using, but it doesn't let you match the reading to the kanji. Just the English meaning, or it asks you to write the word (in which case, it doesn't matter if I can't remember what the kanji look like, so long as I know how to say the word).
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Post by 魔 on Mar 4, 2014 20:44:44 GMT
There's planting and watering. It used to have harvesting too, but they got rid of that.
Planting is for learning new words, once their bar fills up they're "planted" and you'll only see them again when you water. The watered ones are then work like anki, depending on whether you get them right, the testing intervals get longer.
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Post by Bokusenou on Mar 4, 2014 23:04:27 GMT
Ah, I think I've heard of this site! Does it have any advanced Japanese decks, preferably with example sentences? Or would I need to make my own?
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Memrise
Mar 5, 2014 0:27:21 GMT
via mobile
Post by Jembru on Mar 5, 2014 0:27:21 GMT
It could have, but I'm not sure how sentences would work. You'd have to dig about, but there could be category specific vocabulary. You can always build you own. I'm using an incomplete series (the author is still building it), that covers N3-N1 vocabulary. I'm going over deck by deck , 'ignoring' words I can already read (but leaving them in if I know them but don't know the kanji). It seemed like a good way to improve my reading, as I'm guessing the JLPT tries to select vocabulary they feel are frequently used in daily life.
It also confirmed my suspicions... I compared the first 150 words from the N3 and N2 decks (haven't seen N1 yet), and I ignored almost an identical number of words (just 48 for N3, 50 for N2). So my reading really is all over the place. I'd have no chance of reading anythng carefully graded for intermediates! ^^
Like I say, just typing the word isn't that helpful for me, so I'm yet to decide if I rate this site. Maybe I'd be better off deleting all words I know, regardless of whether or not I can read them, and just use it to build vocab..? I'm undecided.
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Post by chocopie on Mar 5, 2014 11:25:25 GMT
BokusenouIf you don't already know about them, the Japanese Core decks for anki might be better for example sentences. They're from iknow.jp (back when it was free) so they should be guaranteed to be mistake free and they come with audio recorded by native speakers.
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Post by 魔 on Mar 6, 2014 15:13:54 GMT
BokusenouThis persons lessons look advanced. linkIf it doesn't have an example sentence you can add your own. Click the add a mem part below the word, then you can choose a picture and add your own text to it.
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Memrise
Mar 6, 2014 22:01:25 GMT
via mobile
Post by Bokusenou on Mar 6, 2014 22:01:25 GMT
Jembru Ah, OK. So far how good do you think Memrise is compared to Anki? I've been kind of wary of using online sites for flashcards, ever since I lost all my decks on iknow.jp when it went paid. chocopie Thanks! I finished core 2k and 6k a few months before I passed N2, and really liked them. I looked through core 10k but it seemed to have a lot of N2 vocabulary, which I already knew. I might give it another look through sometime to see if it has any words which weren't covered by the JLPT vocabulary lists. 魔 Thanks! I'll check those out!
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Post by Jembru on Mar 7, 2014 7:08:22 GMT
Jembru Ah, OK. So far how good do you think Memrise is compared to Anki? I've been kind of wary of using online sites for flashcards, ever since I lost all my decks on iknow.jp when it went paid. If I'm honest, I don't really rate it. Still, I'll list what I consider its strong points and weaknesses. Strengths over Anki;Varied review methods: your reviews are either 'select the meaning/kanji' which can be from up to 8 possible answers, 'complete the compound/expression' where you click the components that makeup the word from a selection, or 'write the word' which is self explanatory. The course I'm using never asks you to write the English meaning, only ever the kanji, but the first course I tried kept asking for English and wasn't very forgiving of typos or British spellings ^^ Visually nicer: There is only so much you can take of looking at anki. I went through a phase of trying to complete all my daily reviews in 20-30 minutes (depending on how close to the 300 mark my reviews were for that day), but I found I just went cross-eyed after a while and couldn't concentrate anymore. It's nice to have the cartoon-like interface to look at. Built in breathers: After a particular number of reviews, it takes you to a screen that shows you the percentage you got correct and tells you how awesome you are! I find it encouraging and it gives me a few moments to rest before I continue with the reviews. Weaknesses compared to anki;It's time consuming: The review method means you're asked about the same word over and over and over and.. you get the point. With anki, you only have to review the same word again if you got it wrong, but memrise doesn't care if you just got it right, it will still ask you to recall the same damned word moments later (maybe with a different method). I haven't attempted to build my own decks, but I imagine that's a pain too. I was going to add a mnemonic, since this is meant to be memrise's 'thing', but even that was too complicated and just not worth the time, when I can just create a mnemonic in my mind in second. Poor test of kanji knowledge: Maybe it's just the course I'm using, and I'd be better off looking for a kanji<->kana course, but it bothers me that the whole point of me using this, was just to improve my reading, yet I can bluff my way through the reviews. For example, say it asks me to write the kanji for 'how many?/how old?' (which seems to be on the JLPT 3 list, despite it usually being in kana.. is this really on the JLPT? I was going to 'ignore' but figured it wouldn't hurt to know the kanji for reading compounds), I don't need to know what it looks like, I just need to write 'ikutsu' and choose the kanji rather than the kana. Even if it gives me a list to select the kanji from, I just look for the one ending in 'tsu'. If more than one ends in 'tsu' chances are, I can rule-out the others, so I STILL know which one is 'ikutsu'. Maybe that would be enough to help me bluff my way through a JLPT, but all I care about is being able to start reading without relying so much on dictionaries. Less control over what you can test: As we already discussed, adding sentences would be quite tricky. You could maybe set it to ask the 'choose the word' option, so that you just arrange the words in the correct order, but I'm not sure how many words you're allowed and that would be way too time consuming. I like to vary my how I review things. I sometimes add the same word to different decks, so that I can give the word from the English, or the reading from the kanji. I also add opposite pairs, or synonyms and even have a 'passive vocab' deck where I give the English of words I doubt I'd ever have much reason to use, but might need to recognise if I see or hear it. I'm not sure how easy it would be to have multiple decks like this on memrise. You'd need to build separate courses. I also could have a 'tricky vocab deck'. I edit cards I'm struggling with and send them to this deck, so I can easily do extra reviews of those cards. After a while, I send them back to the deck they came from. This wouldn't be possible in memrise. Less convenient: I'm also not sure if there is a portable version like there is for anki, so reviewing from your mobile or tablet might not be so easy. I doubt you could quickly add a new word to it while you're watching TV or reading a book like you can with anki. For me, that really is anki's true value: that I can just have my tablet beside me and pop in new words as I come across them, and know I'll be reminded of the word's existence next time I review. So there you have it. This is why for me, anki is still king!
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Post by chocopie on Mar 7, 2014 9:07:17 GMT
BokusenouIf you find a mistake in a deck on Memrise, at least when I was using it there was no way to correct it like there is on anki because you don't actually download the decks. You have to message the creator instead, tell them and hope they respond and change it.
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Post by 魔 on Mar 7, 2014 13:22:43 GMT
You can change some of the settings here - link
I've checked "skip the loading animation" and disabled that rearrange test. I can't remember what the loading animation is, but I think disabling it speeds it up a lot. A trick is to double tap enter when entering a word. Then the next screen comes up faster. Memrise will ask you the word around 4 times (multiple choice 4 answers, 8 answers, typing input, typing input). When watering it will either be multiple choice or watering. If you get it right the first time then it won't ask you again until the next watering. The "planted" words are more like anki. The advantage memrise has over anki is the typing. My typing speed has increased since I started using it. Anki has a typing option, but it sucks from what I remember. I've been kind of wary of using online sites for flashcards, ever since I lost all my decks on iknow.jp when it went paid. The Premium button appeared a couple of months ago, and a couple of the courses have started to say "free course". They haven't released premium yet, once they do the site might become a shadow of it's former self. For the non payers anyway.
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Post by Jembru on Mar 9, 2014 1:24:18 GMT
That sucks that it's sold-out like that. It might not be enough to steal me away from anki, but at the end of the day, it practically IS anki, but a bit more eye-catching and not so versitile. It would be a shame if those who enjoy it are denied access. I remember when a podcast I used to follow started charging. They were amusing lessons, but very amaturish. Japanesepod101 existed at the time, and is far surperior in quality, yet they were charging about the same for subscriptions. That made me pretty mad and needless to say, I took my money elsewhere.
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Post by 魔 on Mar 10, 2014 19:47:36 GMT
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Post by 魔 on Nov 6, 2014 0:47:52 GMT
I think memrise's stong point is the planting. It's been on my mind for a while. But I think it might be better to not do any watering. Is it better to do one course a million times. Or do a million courses one time. Once a word is planted it becomes an inferior version of anki when watering. A spelling error, lack of a space, wrong word with same meaning, mispelling on course. Sorry, type it again. Atleast when you're planting, you know whatever it is they want. A week or so later you probably won't remember exactly what it wants you to type. Multiply the amount of words you have to retype and it adds up to a shit ton of wasted time. If you decide to do nothing but plant. I'd recommend starting with romaji, because it's romaji. You weren't going to do it anyway, so not watering will be no problem.
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